Module 3: Discussions

NATE: I admire Alicia for her ability to juggle lots of different commitments.

For the year I’ve known her, she’s always made time for both school and her family. But this semester she seems to be pretty busy.

She’s taking three extra classes and, whenever I see her, she’s hustling somewhere, no time to talk. And her friends have hardly seen her at all.

Last week she wore the same clothes five days in a row, and the bags under her eyes have gotten out of control. Last year she got straight As, but I wonder how she’s holding up now? Oh, also—I noticed she’s been biking to classes, and when I asked her about it, she said she had to sell her car to cover rent.

Question:

Which of the following should you be concerned about?

Juggles lots of different commitments
Always makes time for school and family
Taking three extra classes this semester
Friends have barely seen her this semester
Wore same clothes five days in a row
Looks sleep-deprived
Got straight As last year
Started biking to classes
Sold her car to cover rent

“Friends have barely seen her this semester” This is a pattern of behavior that might point to problems Alicia is having. There could be a lot of reasons Alicia isn’t hanging out with her friends, not all of them bad, but it’s worth asking her about.

“Wore same clothes five days in a row” and “Looks sleep-deprived.” are significant changes in behavior. They suggest Alicia isn’t taking care of herself, which is troubling.

“Took three extra classes this semester.” Extra classes could be fine if Alicia is in a good place to handle the extra work. Or they could make her life unmanageable if she isn’t. What does your gut tell you?

“Had to sell car to cover rent.” Selling her car points to financial trouble, which can cause a huge amount of stress or could be caused by a larger problem.

I hope Alicia’s okay… I should really talk to her. I’ll make it worth her while by asking her to study with me for our International Relations class.

Conversation Goal

Help Alicia talk through the challenges she’s facing, whatever they might be.

Example of a Weak Conversation that Does Not Achieve the Goals

NATE: …okay, let’s try this one: describe China's interests in Africa and their implications for the United States.

(He pauses, waiting for Alicia’s response, but she is silent.) Alicia? Hello?

ALICIA: (snaps out of it) Yeah, sorry. Which one are we doing?

NATE: You okay?

ALICIA: Yeah. Just kinda… spaced out for a sec. But I’m back. Where are we on the list?

NATE: Alicia... you look like hell. You gotta get it together.

ALICIA: (snaps) Mind your business, Nate. I’m already under fire from every direction... I don’t need it from you, too.

PROGRESS UPDATE: “You look like hell” is a very critical thing to say. If Nate sticks to the facts and keeps it more neutral, she’ll be less defensive.

NATE: The list can wait just a minute.

ALICIA: No, we gotta get back to it. I gotta pick up my kids soon.

NATE: Okay, sure, but... how are you doing? What’s going on?

ALICIA: (sigh) I’ve got a lot going on, but nothing me and my good friend caffeine can’t handle. So let’s get back to it.

NATE: Maybe you can’t handle it. You look like you’re falling asleep right now.

ALICIA: Oh, I’ve been through worse than this. If you think I can’t handle it, then you just don’t know me very well.

NATE: Okay... like what? What’s going on?

ALICIA: (sigh) Extra classes, the kids, a pile of paperwork… the usual stupid knee problems. But that’s… whatever. It’s 10 pounds of shit in a five-pound bag, y’know? But… I’ll push through.

NATE: Sounds like a lot. You should cut back. Moderate, y’know?

ALICIA: (rolls eyes) Yeah, okay. Soon as you figure out how I can cut back and still do everything I need to do, just let me know.

ALICIA (thinking to herself): Go ahead, Nate. You don’t know the first thing about my situation, but go ahead and tell me what to do.

NATE: Wow, well, good luck with all that craziness. I should stop wasting your time with chit-chat.

ALICIA: (shrugs) It’s okay. Where were we on the list?

NATE: I think we were on China's role in Africa, right here...

(Next Semester)

ALICIA: So, it turns out… Nate was right, and I’m not the invincible superwoman I thought I was. I collapsed during finals last semester, and when my husband came to visit me in the hospital, he… threatened to leave me if I didn’t get my act together.

So I’m taking a semester off to be with my family and work part-time, and maybe when I go back to school… if I go back to school… I’ll take things a little slower.

Example of a Good Conversation that Achieves the Goals

NATE: …okay, let’s try this one: describe China's interests in Africa and their implications for the United States.

(He pauses, waiting for Alicia’s response, but she is silent.) Alicia? Hello?

ALICIA: (snaps out of it) Yeah, sorry. Which one are we doing?

NATE: You okay?

ALICIA: Yeah. Just kinda… spaced out for a sec. But I’m back. Where are we on the list?

NATE: Y’know, you’ve had trouble concentrating a few times today... and I can see your head drooping. You okay?

ALICIA: (shrugs) Just got a lot going on right now. But nothing I can’t handle. Just need some more coffee, I guess.

ALICIA (thinking to herself and sounding angry with herself): C’mon, Alicia. Get your head in the game. Got 99 things to do, and a nap ain’t one.

NATE: Okay... like what? What’s going on?

NATE: What are you, superwoman? How are you making it all work?

ALICIA: Uhhh... I don’t know, that’s just how it is, being a mom and a student. I don’t sleep a whole lot. I get tired and snappy and piss off my husband. He doesn’t get it, but I just do what I have to do to get it all done.

NATE: So, you’re taking extra classes, huh?

ALICIA: Yeah.

NATE: How many?

ALICIA: Three.

NATE: Damn. And I thought I was a rock star last semester for taking one extra class.

ALICIA: (jokingly) Let’s be real, Nate. You always think you’re a rock star.

NATE: (jokingly) Hard not to think that when it’s true…

ALICIA: (chuckles) Whatever.

NATE: Why so many classes? What’s the rush?

ALICIA: Well, I’m 10 years behind everyone else. I mean, don’t you ever feel that? I gotta floor it, get the hell out of here, get a real job, get on with my life. I can’t give up now.

ALICIA (thinking to herself): Every other woman my age already has a career… and here I am, still struggling through school, like a teenager.

NATE: But you’re not 10 years behind everyone. You’ve already done amazing things that most of these kids could never imagine. If you wanted, I bet some of your professors would love it if you shared some of that stuff with the other students.

ALICIA: I mean, you’re right, I’ve already done some cool stuff... but that doesn’t mean I should take my time about things, either. I have to get this done. I’m not giving up on school.

NATE: Okay, humor me here... what would happen if you slowed down?

ALICIA: (sigh) Well, my husband, Terry... he wants me to take a semester off. So then I’d be six months behind on everything.

NATE: And how would that affect the rest of your life?

ALICIA: Well, it would… it would totally wreck my plan! I’d be older when I started my career, and… well, six months older, at least…. (pause) I mean, maybe it wouldn’t be the worst thing ever. I’d survive… I always have. But I’d hate it.

PROGRESS UPDATE: Nate did well getting Alicia to honestly evaluate pros and cons. Helping someone find their own solutions takes time and patience, but this is an excellent start and good progress.

NATE: Now I don’t think you should give up on school, because obviously you’re really good at it and it’s important to you. But isn’t there something between giving up completely and taking three extra classes?

ALICIA: I could take a normal load... (sigh) and that’s probably the smart thing to do. It just sucks ‘cause... I feel like I have to knock this out, y’know? Put my head down and power through it.

NATE: I know a lot of the things going on are beyond your control and you just have to power through them, so that just sucks.

ALICIA: Yeah. Sometimes I’m not in control at all.

NATE: Right... so maybe we should talk about things you can do something about.

ALICIA: Uh... what do you mean?

NATE: I mean, is any of this pressure you’re putting on yourself?

ALICIA: I mean... I guess I’m doing more than I have to... I just feel like this is my one chance to get ahead, y’know? Like, I’ve muscled through worse than this. (sigh) But I don’t know… Maybe I am taking on too much.

PROGRESS UPDATE: Notice how Nate managed to agree with Alicia while still getting her to consider a different perspective. This is called “agreeing with a twist,” where you start by agreeing with your buddy and then get her to think about alternatives.

NATE: Y’know, I hear you. I really do. When I was doing active time, I always had to be moving and doing something. And, when I came back, it was hard to turn that off. I hated standing still, I just wanted to go, go, go.

ALICIA: Yeah, I can’t stand it. Being stuck in traffic just drives me insane....

NATE: And that’s so crazy, because... when you were deployed, didn’t you just want to smell some clean air? Or see a forest? Or just frikkin’ sit and enjoy not doing anything?

ALICIA: Ha. Yeah. When we were driving, sometimes I used to daydream about sitting on a beach.

NATE: Well, now’s your chance to take it slower. Why not enjoy it? I mean… getting ahead doesn’t have to be so painful.

ALICIA: I... Yeah. I hadn’t thought about it like that.

NATE: It sounds like you think rest is surrender. That if you rest, or if you scale back, you’re giving up.

ALICIA: Well… yeah. I gotta get stuff done now, y’know? I can sleep when I’m dead.

NATE: Okay, humor me for a minute. Think about when you were training for your first PT test.

ALICIA: Okay....

NATE: Did you run every day?

ALICIA: That’s a good point. We always had days off.

NATE: Right. So you need a strategy to handle this stuff. And if you want to succeed, rest has to be part of the plan.

ALICIA: My husband keeps saying I’m no use to anyone when I’m this tired. Maybe he’s right...

NATE: How’s everything with Terry?

ALICIA: He’s, uhhhh... (pauses, fidgets) It’s not great. He wants me to take some time off from school... and that’s not gonna happen. So we’re not... I wouldn’t say Terry and I are best buds at the moment.

ALICIA (thinking to herself): And I know I’m not the best wife these days, either.

NATE: Sounds like maybe Terry’s pretty stressed, too… what’s up with him these days?

ALICIA: Well... he’s been working overtime to keep us afloat. I know he worries about money a lot... things aren’t great there, and I haven’t been any help. And I’ve been kind of on a short fuse... I know he’s dealing with a lot. Just… he just can’t ask me to give up on school.

ALICIA (thinking to herself): I know I need to think more about things from Terry’s perspective… hard to do when he’s pissing me off every 10 minutes. (grudging) But… I get why he’s tense.

NATE: When’s the last time you guys went out together?

ALICIA: (laughs) Oh, man. Well, we went out, uh... sometime last year, I think....

NATE: Wow, last year? Why’s it been so long?

ALICIA: I always have so much crap on my list... and going out to a movie or whatever can wait, y’know? And anyway, that’s how it was on deployments. I’d be away for a long time and then I’d be with him for a while.

NATE: So... spending time with Terry seems less important right now than studying for classes or doing paperwork.

ALICIA: No, not like... it’s not less important, it’s just.... (frustrated) I don’t know.

NATE: What?

ALICIA: It’s just that we have the rest of our lives to go on dates and hold hands and all that crap. But school has to happen now. We know we have to make sacrifices now so I can get a better job… we’re dealing with it.

PROGRESS UPDATE: Notice how paraphrasing Alicia’s words back to her made her clarify what she really meant, which kept the conversation moving forward.

NATE: I heard a tip from a sergeant one time... he was saying that, yeah, sometimes you’re busy and you have to put things off. But if you don’t set a time, it’ll never happen.

So when you put off time with your husband, give him a date. Like, “It’s midterms this week so we gotta suck it up, but next Monday, if we can drop the kids off at your parents’, I’m all yours.”

ALICIA: Yeah, that makes sense... if it goes into my planner, it’s guaranteed to happen. (sigh) One more thing on my list.

NATE: Look, you guys should go on a date. And it doesn’t have to be a big deal. Just pick a night, and I’ll come babysit. I like kids.

ALICIA: Are you--you’re not serious.

NATE: Sure, I am!

I have nieces and nephews. You think I don’t know how to take care of kids? It’s easy; I know the drill.

ALICIA: Watch it, I might just call your bluff.

NATE: Do it!

ALICIA: (laughs)

NATE: I’m serious!

ALICIA: (as if a challenge) Okay. Next Thursday at seven.

NATE: It’s a deal. You’re on!

ALICIA: (laughs) Well… Okay. Wow.

ALICIA: (sigh) Thanks, Nate. I didn’t realize how much I needed to talk about this stuff.

NATE: Yeah, weird how that works, right?

ALICIA: Yeah. And I think I can really kill it next semester... assuming all the crap with my benefits clears up and I can come back. I mean, things are really tight… we can’t pay for another semester ourselves.

NATE: What do you mean, trouble with your benefits? What’s up?

ALICIA: Oh, y’know. My G.I. Bill benefits. They’re saying I didn’t do something, and I’m pretty sure I did everything, but... I can’t even look at it anymore. It just makes my head spin, it pisses me off so much.

NATE: Well, you know there’s a Certifying Official on campus, right? Did you talk to her?

ALICIA: Yeah, a couple times, but… I don't know. The paperwork’s jammed up somewhere.

NATE: So, what are you doing in the meantime?

ALICIA: Paying this semester out of pocket. We kinda burned through our savings. So... that’s why I had to sell my car.

NATE: Oh, yeah. I saw you rode your bike here.

ALICIA: Yep. It’s like a car, just half the wheels and no engine. But I don’t need to go to the gym anymore...

ALICIA (thinking to herself): Sucks to think that I’ve been killin’ myself to do all these classes… and it could all be for nothing if I can’t come back next semester.

NATE: Listen, I know how hard it is to live without the safety net of that monthly paycheck. I had to live outside that bubble, with the tuition assistance and the Tricare and all that stuff, for a while... it was hard. Kinda scary.

ALICIA: Yeah, no kidding. (laughs) I’m glad I’m not the only one scared stupid about this stuff. Sometimes I have to remind myself that other people deal with these things, too.

PROGRESS UPDATE: By sharing his own experience, Nate let Alicia know she’s not alone. Now that she feels understood, she’s much more likely to listen to him and brainstorm about possible solutions.

NATE: Y’know, there are actually a lot of options you could look into, up to and including a letter to your congressman.

NATE: There are scholarships and grants and stuff you could apply for, and there are pro-bono legal services for vets, too… and you might be surprised at how many different emergency funds are out there. There’s a Military and Veterans office on campus that might help … and actually, the S.V.O. has an emergency fund, too. I could look into that, if you want.

ALICIA: No, but… no need to go through all that… not for stuff like this. That stuff is for people who really need it. And besides… that would be one more thing to worry about and spend time on, and it might not even work out in the end.

NATE: Well, you have mouths to feed, right?

ALICIA: Yeah, it’s been a little tough getting food on the table, but, I don’t know... I don’t want to take any handouts. You know what I mean.

NATE: Okay, then don’t think of it as a handout. You can take it now and give back later. Like I needed some help my first semester, and now I help the S.V.O. here on campus—doing fundraising and things because, y’know, I’m just tryin’ to pay it forward.

ALICIA: That’s cool. But, are you sure it’s okay? I mean, I don’t want to, like, take from someone else who needs it more than I do.

NATE: I mean, you’re a mother of two who needs to put food on the table, and you’re not getting your benefits... if this isn’t an emergency, I don’t know what is.

ALICIA: Okay, well... Just a little bit would be great, until I can get my benefits going again.

NATE: Yeah, just enough to keep you going…

NATE: (pause) So... I think we’ve beaten this into the ground. How ‘bout some more studying?

ALICIA: Yeah. Yeah, let’s get back to it. Where were we on the list?

NATE: I think we were on China's role in Africa, right here...

(Next Semester)

ALICIA: Nate really came through for me. He got me hooked up with some help—some gift cards for groceries and stuff, and a pro-bono lawyer to get things done. Oh, and I took his advice and slowed my crazy pace way down.

Now that my life is right-side-up again, I’m back to straight As, my family is a lot happier, and we don’t have to worry about money quite so much. Maybe I’m not an invincible superwoman, but… I think I’m okay with that.