PHIL: So… here we are…
JORDAN: Yep, finally hanging outside the kitchen. I barely recognize you without your apron on.
PHIL: Yeah, I think I prefer you with the hair net…
JORDAN: (laughs)
PHIL: Maybe it’d fit over the cap.
JORDAN: (laughs) Yeah, yeah…
PHIL: We missed you at work the other day. You feeling alright?
JORDAN: (slightly guilty) Oh, it wasn’t that. I mean, I wasn’t, like, sick. I just… overslept. Didn’t mean to leave you guys high and dry, especially for the morning rush. I know how crazy that can get.
JORDAN THOUGHT: Guess you’d be pissed if I said I was just too hungover to come in.
FEEDBACK: Good job! If there’s something concerning you about a friend, it’s okay to bring it up. Some tips: focus on specific behaviors you’ve noticed and keep a very neutral tone -- avoid any hint of judgment or criticism.
PHIL: Eh, we managed without you. But what happened? What made you oversleep?
JORDAN: Aw, man… On Tuesday there was a party at this girl’s house who I haven’t seen since, like, high school. We go way back. I mean waaaaay back. I couldn’t miss seeing her, and it ended up being a real late night.
JORDAN THOUGHT: I should’ve come into work anyway. I just can’t function on that little sleep.
PHIL: Hey, speaking of the kitchen, I heard your hours got cut.
JORDAN: Yeah, man. I came in late a couple times… skipped out one day… and now they cut me to three days a week. I don’t know what I’m gonna do, but… I guess I got plenty time to chill, right?
JORDAN THOUGHT: Problem is, I’ve got more time to chill than I need now…
FEEDBACK: Great job! If there’s something concerning you about a friend, it’s okay to bring it up. Some tips: focus on specific behaviors you’ve noticed and keep a very neutral tone -- avoid any hint of judgment or criticism.
PHIL: So, now that your hours are cut, whatcha doin’ with all that newfound free time?
JORDAN: Eh, been going out a lot. Hanging out with friends, going to parties. Not much else to do around here.
JORDAN THOUGHT: Even the parties kinda get old after a while…
FEEDBACK: Good job. Asking open-ended questions (those that can’t be answered with a simple yes or no) is a great way to get people to open up.
PHIL: How’s going out so much affecting the rest of your life? Like work and stuff?
JORDAN: Eh… I don’t know… It’s weird. ‘Cause that’s the only time I really feel like myself anymore. When I drink… smoke up… go out… But then these friggin’ hard cases at work won’t even let me have that, and they cut my hours. It’s like I can have any two things -- a life, a job, or sleep… But… I can’t have all three.
FEEDBACK: Great job! By showing concern and interest in Jordan’s perspective--without being judgmental--you made him comfortable opening up. Now you know that, while he enjoys partying, he also sees the downside. He needs a supportive person right now to listen and help him explore these thoughts.
PHIL: It sounds like you’re torn between having fun and keeping the rest of your life in order.
JORDAN: Yeah, man. (pause) Exactly. I look at guys like Hazer and sometimes it scares the crap outta me. I don’t want to be 40 years old, doing the same stuff, living the same life I do now.
JORDAN THOUGHT: It’s like I’m looking through a time tunnel. I cannot end up like that.
FEEDBACK: Great job trying to understand Jordan’s perspective. He can tell you’re listening; and, as a result, he’s starting to really open up to you.
PHIL: It’s easy to get stuck in a rut. You know what I mean?
JORDAN: (thinking) Yeah… lately I’ve been feeling it more… with my hours cut and my money going down the tube. Not sleeping or getting any exercise. It’s like I’ve been sorta spinning my wheels for the last five years. (laughs) I need to keep a steady job, get out of my parent’s house… Maybe go to school. No offense, but I can’t do kitchen work forever.
FEEDBACK: Nice going. By listening to Jordan and trying to understand his situation, you were able to voice what he was feeling. He felt understood and, as a result, he really opened up to you.
PHIL: So, how much you been smoking lately?
JORDAN: Lemme think… like, three, maybe four days a week? Sometimes I’ll do edibles, too.
PHIL: So like every other day.
JORDAN: Well… maybe some weeks more than others. (pause - laughs) We live in Colorado, dude. Might as well take advantage of what we’ve got.
FEEDBACK: Nice job asking non-judgmental questions to get a fuller picture of Jordan’s substance use.
PHIL: Sounds like you’ve got a lot of heavy stuff on your mind right now.
JORDAN: Yeah, too much. I try not to stress about it.
PHIL: How do you do that?
JORDAN: Just end up toking and zoning out. (looks down, shakes head, gives a sad laugh)
JORDAN THOUGHT: I must sound like the biggest loser to you…
FEEDBACK: Good job. By keeping a neutral tone and listening to Jordan you got him to really open up about the downsides of his lifestyle. This has already been a really helpful conversation! Lastly, see if Jordan has any ideas for resolving the discrepancy between his current behavior and what he wants from life.
PHIL: How would you feel about cutting back on your weed and drinks?
JORDAN: Yeah, I guess it’s gotta happen. I mean, I’ve gotta get my shifts back at work and start saving. I can’t have any more late nights where I don’t make it in the next day or where I’m too tired to function. I know it’s a crap job, but I do need it.
PHIL: You don’t sound so excited.
JORDAN: (sad laugh, shrugs)
JORDAN THOUGHT: What would I do with myself? I can’t hang out with the guys and not drink and smoke with ‘em…
FEEDBACK: When you think it’s important to give advice, this is the way to do it -- asking it as a question instead of giving a command. “How do you feel about cutting back?” is a lot easier to hear than “You should cut back.”
PHIL: These are tough questions a lot of people have to face at some point. It’s good you’re asking these questions in the first place; it means you care about yourself and you’re not scared to change when you need to.
JORDAN: (small laugh) Thanks, man. I appreciate that. I’m trying; I really am. I’m gonna get this all figured out. I really appreciate you don’t mind talking about this stuff.
PHIL: Hey, I’ve been there, too.
FEEDBACK: Good job. You let Jordan know that you’re not going to judge him and that you’re a safe, supportive friend he can come to when he needs to talk.
PHIL: I’m sure you didn’t always feel like this.
JORDAN: No.
PHIL: When do you remember feeling really good?
JORDAN: (pause) After high school. When I was in great shape, running all the time, hiking, fly-fishing… Slept like a baby every night.
PHIL: You were really taking care of yourself.
JORDAN: For sure.
JORDAN THOUGHT: Maybe I just need to get back to taking care of myself.
PHIL: If you decided to cut back, how would you do it?
JORDAN: I guess no more late nights when I have work in the morning… Not drinking or smoking as much those nights. Getting more rest. And maybe putting away some money every month, so I don’t spend it all at the bar.
PHIL: (nods, thinks) That sounds really great, man. I mean, judging from what you’ve told me it sounds like that might really help.
PHIL: What kind of exercise do you like to do these days?
JORDAN: I feel pretty good if I can get to the gym. My friend works at Petterson’s and he said he can get me a good deal on a membership if I want.
PHIL: I will await your transformation.
JORDAN: (laughs) Thanks. I can only get better, right?
JORDAN THOUGHT: I bet I’d sleep a lot better if I started working out again.
PHIL: How hard would it be to make changes like you mentioned?
JORDAN: I just need to find some other things to do after work. Like, I’ve been meaning to start back exercising. I don’t know…
PHIL: It’s really great to catch up. Let’s get together more often. Too hard to talk about stuff at work.
JORDAN: For sure. Hey did you see that Rockies game last night?
PHIL: Did I?…
Congratulations! You completed the conversation.
After that conversation, Jordan’s taking steps to balance his goal and his partying. His work performance improved and he got his hours back. He now runs with Phil 2-3 times a week, and he filed for financial aid to go to school.
Phil was smart to avoid a “tough love” approach, sounding judgmental, and giving unwanted advice. He did a great job of getting Jordan to open up!
Phil didn’t criticize Jordan, encouraging him to talk about his goals and what he wants to change in his life. Next time Phil could ask even more questions and look for more opportunities to empathize.
Phil acknowledged the tough decisions facing Jordan and helped him think of things he could do instead of partying. They worked together on specific solutions and thinking through the possible obstacles will help him succeed. Phil avoided pushing your own ideas or taking a “tough love” approach. A lot of times, what friends need most is someone to listen, be a sounding board and maybe make a couple of low-key suggestions.