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PIC 1: Dr. Nathal and Maya appear on a video call next to each other.
DR. NATHAL: Hey Maya, nice to see you again.
MAYA: Yeah, you too.
DR. NATHAL: What’s new?
MAYA: Not too much, but also a lot? I dunno.
DR. NATHAL: (nods)
MAYA: Like, there’s one class where I just got this really bad grade. I think I’m gonna talk to the professor. But, the reason I wanted to meet with you is, well, I’m feeling kind of, I don’t know. Disconnected. Like, I don’t fit.
DR. NATHAL: Hm. I get that.
MAYA: (nods) I guess, maybe I haven’t really found my people yet. Like, I thought things were okay last semester, but this semester is just, different.
DR. NATHAL: Are you putting yourself out there enough?
MAYA: I don’t know. I’m trying.
DR. NATHAL: (nods)
MAYA: (stressed) Like, what do you want me to say? I go out, I meet people, but nothing lasts.
Maya’s thought: Maybe you’re right, maybe there’s something wrong with me. But also, I don’t think it’s that simple.
COACH: Dr. Nathal gave Maya advice on how to solve her problem. She wasn’t ready to hear advice and felt judged. Dr. Nathal should try asking open-ended questions that invite her to share how she feels.
DR. NATHAL: You know, what you’re going through, lots of people are going through the same thing.
MAYA: Uh, okay. I mean, I don’t know about other people, but for me? It’s been hard.
COACH: Dr. Nathal tried to make Maya feel better. Using generalizations can signal that you’re not paying attention to someone’s specific experience. Dr. Nathal should try reflecting back what Maya is telling him, so Maya knows he understands.
DR. NATHAL: (positive) Learning how to deal with rough patches, you know, can help you in the future.
MAYA: (unconvinced) I guess…
DR. NATHAL: (positive) You’ll get through it. And, and maybe even be better off.
MAYA: Sure. Are you saying… Never mind.
Maya’s thought: Sometimes when things are rough, they don’t make me stronger or anything. It’s just bad.
COACH: Dr. Nathal tried to cheer Maya up, but she felt like Dr. Kelly was minimizing her experiences in this moment.
MAYA: Sorry, I’m rambling. I know I just wanted to talk about fitting in, and now we’ve gone like all over the place. This is what I do, I guess.
DR. NATHAL: It’s alright. Don’t worry about it.
Everything you’ve described so far is pretty common for people your age.
MAYA: Uhhhh, okay. That doesn’t make dealing with it easy.
DR. NATHAL: No, of course not. I’m just saying… you’re not alone.
MAYA: Sure.
Maya’s thought: I don’t think everyone feels like… this.
COACH: Dr. Nathal tried to show Maya that she’s not alone in having this struggle. But she felt like he was minimizing her experience.
DR. NATHAL: Why do you think you, you personally, are having a hard time dealing with everything?
MAYA: I, I don’t know.
COACH: Dr. Nathal tried asking open-ended questions to get Maya to share what she’s going through. But remember, students might get uncomfortable if you dig too deep into their personal life. And questions about ‘why’ can sound judgmental.
DR. NATHAL: Thanks for sharing all that with me.
MAYA: Yeah, sure thing. It’s kind of, it’s nice just saying some of that out loud.
DR. NATHAL: Maybe we can chat next steps?
MAYA: Sure.
COACH: You can move to referral at any point. After what Maya’s shared, referring her to some other resources is the best course of action.
DR. NATHAL: Do you think you need some extra help figuring things out?
MAYA: (off guard) Uhh, I don’t know. Depending on what you mean, maybe?
Maya’s thought: I don’t need to figure out my life, why are you putting it like that?
COACH: Dr. Nathal shared his concern with Maya and told her he thinks it would benefit Maya to talk to someone else. But Maya felt judged by the wording of “figuring things out.”
MAYA: (confused) But wait, are you trying to say like, I need (shakes head) What are you saying?
DR. NATHAL: Well, let’s talk about it.
The truth is, succeeding in school gives you opportunities, so, the best way I know how to get out of a funk is to focus on school.
MAYA: (unconvinced) Uh huh.
DR. NATHAL: Set aside your concerns, and once you have a handle on your school work, the rest will follow. I’m happy to help, if you want.
MAYA: Cool. I’ll let you know, I might want to check out some other options too.
DR. NATHAL: Sure.
Maya’s thought: Yeah, “Just focus on school” doesn’t work for me. But thanks.
COACH: Maya felt like Dr. Nathal was dismissing her concerns when he told her to focus on school. When students are experiencing stress, it can be a barrier to their academic success. Dr. Nathal should try discussing referral options, so Maya has a good sense of where she can go for more support.
DR. NATHAL: Maybe I can check in over email in a couple weeks, see what steps you decided to take?
MAYA: Alright.
DR. NATHAL: You know, I’m glad you reached out. I want your time here to be good, rewarding, and not too intense. Both the academic side, and the social side.
MAYA: I appreciate it. Thanks for taking the time.
DR. NATHAL: Sure thing.
Maya doesn’t feel fully supported in seeking out help, but she knows there are resources to help her. It’s good that Dr. Nathal is checking in with her via email.
Dr. Nathal tried to get Maya to share information with him, but he asked closed questions that did not encourage further discussion.
He said, “You’ve got a lot going on, did you make enough time to study?”
These kinds of questions invite short answers. And asking if Maya spent enough time studying carries some judgment about her as a student.
Next time, Dr. Nathal should try asking open-ended questions that give Maya space to open up.
Remember not to dig too deep into students’ personal lives. Students might find it uncomfortable.
Dr. Nathal tried to normalize Maya’s experience and cheer her up when he said, “Lots of people are going through the same thing.”
Telling Maya that a lot of other people have the same problem didn’t give her the impression that he was trying to understand her perspective. Instead of feeling cheered up, she felt unsupported.
Next time, Dr. Nathal should try reflecting back what Maya’s saying to show he understands how she feels and where she’s coming from.
Dr. Nathal told Maya experiencing difficulty would make her stronger.
He said, “Learning how to deal with rough patches can help you in the future.”
She didn’t find this silver lining helpful. Next time, Dr. Nathal should try to focus on where Maya’s coming from. That will show her it’s safe to open up to you.
Dr. Nathal missed the opportunity to show Maya he supports her and that he’s on her side.
He said, “Everything you’ve described so far is pretty common for people your age.”
He tried to normalize her struggles, but she felt like he was minimizing her experience.
Next time, Dr. Nathal should try showing Maya he understands where she’s coming from and he’s on her side.
Dr. Nathal tried to support Maya when he said, “Do you think you need some extra help figuring things out?”
Next time, Dr. Nathal should try asking Maya if she would like to talk about referral options. Asking her if she needs “extra help figuring things out” is trying to be supportive, but can come across as stigmatizing.
Dr. Nathal told Maya what he thinks she needs to do. He said, “The best way I know to get out of a funk is to focus on school.”
Maya felt judged when he told her to focus on school.
Dr. Nathal should make sure to be nonjudgmental when discussing referral options with Maya. That way she will feel supported while learning about where she can go for additional help. For example, he could ask what Maya knows about support options by saying, “How much do you know about the counseling center?” and encourage her to seek support by saying, “Other students have told me it’s easier to fit in when they find a club, or a group, that fits their interests. What are your thoughts on that?”
PIC 2: Dr. Nathal and Maya appear on a video call next to each other.
DR. NATHAL: Hey Maya, nice to see you again.
MAYA: Yeah, you too.
DR. NATHAL: What’s new?
MAYA: Not too much, but also a lot? I dunno.
DR. NATHAL: (nods)
MAYA: Like, there’s one class where I just got this really bad grade. I think I’m gonna talk to the professor. But, the reason I wanted to meet with you is, well, I’m feeling kind of, I don’t know. Disconnected. Like, I don’t fit.
DR. NATHAL: Hm. I get that.
MAYA: (nods) I guess, maybe I haven’t really found my people yet. Like, I thought things were okay last semester, but this semester is just… different.
DR. NATHAL: What’s been different about this semester?
MAYA: I guess, last semester things were more stable?
DR. NATHAL: (nods) Tell me what you mean by, "stable."
MAYA: Less… all over the place. I did my work and, well, things were good otherwise. (stressed) Now I try to go out and meet other people, but then I get home late, and I have to get up early, and I’m… tired, I guess.
Maya’s thought: Last semester I got to bed earlier than I do now. I miss those days.
COACH: Dr. Nathal asked open-ended questions to find out what’s going on in Maya’s life. By asking her what’s different in her life, he gave her space to think about it and share any changes with him.
DR. NATHAL: So, you haven’t been sleeping much, at least not as much as you’d like.
MAYA: (nods) People are always like, what would I do in a zombie apocalypse. And I’m like, my life is already a zombie apocalypse, and I’m the zombie!
DR. NATHAL: (chuckles) What do you mean by that?
MAYA: (smiles) I don’t know. I just have this vision of myself as this, I don’t even know. Peppy person who like, does all my work, can really get things done. But then I’m like, I’m at my desk, staring at the computer, and it’s just so… empty. My brain is like… empty.
DR. NATHAL: (nods) You’re not thinking about your work.
MAYA: Yeah. And I know that’s just in my head, so I like, try to go out and meet people. But it’s hard to break in, and really get to know people when it’s so loud, and people are already hanging in their own groups. So, I guess, it’s empty there too.
COACH: Dr. Nathal listened to what Maya was telling him and reflected it back to her. Showing he understood and was willing to help. Maya continued to share with him because she felt comfortable.
DR. NATHAL: Feeling alone is hard sometimes.
MAYA: Definitely.
DR. NATHAL: And yet, you have still pushed yourself to find like-minded people.
MAYA: (nods) Easier said than done. If I’m being honest, there was someone who I was super close with. We’d hang together like, a lot. And I thought it was going somewhere? But then it just… I don’t know. Ended.
COACH: Dr. Nathal showed Maya that he understands what she’s going through and that he’s there to support her.
MAYA: I appreciate you being so… understanding about the whole thing. If I’m being honest, I didn’t really know what you were going to say.
DR. NATHAL: (nods) You’re welcome.
MAYA: And, ugh this is weird. Sorta like I was saying, the biggest thing on my mind? This girl I was hanging with, we started just watching movies together or whatever, shared interests, you know. Then it got to be more than that, and then she sort of broke up with me out of nowhere, and it’s kind of messed with my head.
DR. NATHAL: (nods) What you mentioned before is true, community is so important for feeling connected and motivated.
MAYA: (nods) And it’s so hard right now. I feel like, like this one time, I was with this group, and we were trying to figure out where to get food, and I told them about this mac and cheese place I knew about where they like, I don’t even know, but it’s spicy, and crunchy, and gooey…
DR. NATHAL: That sounds really good.
MAYA: Right?! Yeah. It is. But then, they just acted like they hadn’t heard me, and decided to go somewhere else. And it’s like that, all the time, whenever I’m with people. Like I’m barely even there. But enough about all that.
COACH: By bringing up something Maya said earlier in the conversation, Dr. Nathal was checking for understanding and encouraging her to share.
DR. NATHAL: Breakups are definitely hard and can easily affect other parts of your life.
MAYA: (nods) For sure. After she and I like (sigh), we would just, hang out, and watch movies. It really felt like we connected, you know? And now… I don’t want to keep thinking about it, but, yeah.
COACH: By bringing up something Maya said earlier in the conversation, he showed that he really heard and understood her concerns.
DR. NATHAL: You said earlier you might not be getting enough sleep, which would affect your ability to focus.
MAYA: (nods) Exactly, that was kind of my point. And I know it’s something I should be better about, it’s just, I don’t always stay on top of it. But… yeah, I get it.
COACH: By bringing up something Maya said earlier in the conversation, Dr. Nathal showed that he really heard and understood her concerns.
MAYA: I think we can, we can move on.
DR. NATHAL: Okay. No problem.
MAYA: I’m, I’m glad we talked some though.
DR. NATHAL: (nods) Would it be alright if we talked a little about some options that could help?
MAYA: (warm) Okay, sure. That’d be cool.
COACH: Dr. Nathal started the conversation about referrals by asking Maya’s permission to talk about it. This helped Maya know he respected her feelings and was there to support her.
MAYA: I feel like, I don’t know. Maybe I could use some help, or something. But, I’m not sure exactly what that looks like.
DR. NATHAL: Well, let’s talk about it.
What do you know about the programs put on by our school’s office of campus life?
MAYA: (shakes head) Nothing, really.
DR. NATHAL: Well, they put together a lot of special activities, events, stuff like that for students, to balance out all the academics.
MAYA: Ah, that makes sense. And you think I should check it out?
COACH: Dr. Nathal did a good job of introducing the campus life office. Maya felt like he was listening and that he respected her, so she asked for his thoughts. But remember, it’s Maya’s decision what support she seeks out.
DR. NATHAL: Seems like you want to connect with people who share similar interests, and the office of campus life, that’s what it’s there for.
MAYA: (nods) Yeah, I could see that.
DR. NATHAL: I’ve had many students who participate in special activities, events, because, like you, they want to connect with others. And a lot of the time, they walk away having met someone new.
MAYA: That actually, that sounds pretty good.
COACH: Dr. Nathal gave Maya the information she needed to be able to make her own choices. This showed Maya that he was there to support her and he understood what she was going through.
DR. NATHAL: I’ve heard from other students how they used the school’s website to find student clubs, athletics, and groups that were a support system for them.
COACH: Even though Maya was hesitant, Dr. Nathal did a great job bringing up the idea of her joining a club or group. He should try following up with how this might benefit her. But remember, in the end, it’s Maya’s decision what support she seeks out.
DR. NATHAL: As well as maybe checking out the office of campus life…
What do you know about student clubs, athletics, and groups on campus? There’s even a calendar with monthly events and activities.
Other students have told me they help, getting together with people who share the same kind of interests. People to talk with about what they’re going through. Sometimes, it even sounds like, like a peer support system.
MAYA: I don’t know… I’ve tried going to a couple clubs before, and I wasn’t really, it didn’t really work for me.
DR. NATHAL: (nods)
MAYA: I always felt like I was on the outside, like everyone already knew each other and (shrugs) From the ones I’ve tried so far, anyway.
DR. NATHAL: Other students have told me it’s easier to fit in when they find a club, or a group, which fits their interests. What are your thoughts on that?
MAYA: I don’t know, even if it’s something I liked, which is worth checking out for sure, I wish I had someone to go with, or I knew someone in the group ahead of time.
DR. NATHAL: Hmm, I have a thought about that, if you’re okay with me to share?
MAYA: Sure.
DR. NATHAL: Well, okay I had one student in a similar situation, who was a little unsure about that first meeting, and tried reaching out to the people who were in charge of the group, I think it was a food appreciation club of some sort.
MAYA: (smile) Food is good.
DR. NATHAL: Ha, agreed! Anyway, the organizers were really friendly, and my student felt a lot more comfortable, and then continued to go week after week. So, if you messaged the head of the group you were interested in, before meeting up with everyone, might help you feel included. What do you think?
MAYA: Actually, that’s a good point, I didn’t think to do that, message the people who organize it. I could try it.
COACH: Dr. Nathal gave Maya the information she needed to be able to make her own choices. This showed Maya that he was there to support her and he understood what she was going through.
DR. NATHAL: As well as maybe messaging the organizers of clubs or groups you were interested in…
How much do you know about the counseling center?
MAYA: I don’t know? I know a couple people who use the center for like, mental health stuff.
DR. NATHAL: (nods)
COACH: Dr. Nathal did a good job of introducing the counseling center in a caring way. Maya felt hesitant, so try following up with why the counseling center might be a good resource for her. But remember, in the end, it’s Maya’s decision what support she seeks out.
MAYA: I’m not sure I’m really on that level, personally.
DR. NATHAL: You know your mental health better than anyone else. And it’s your decision what you think will help you the most.
MAYA: (nods)
DR. NATHAL: That said, the counseling center is for all students, no matter who they are or, or what they’re going through. There are some resources for people who are going through something bigger, more like you mentioned. And there are other resources for people in other situations, maybe more like what you’re dealing with.
MAYA: Okay. Yeah, that, that makes sense. I guess I’ll check it out.
DR. NATHAL: (nods) Sounds good!
COACH: Dr. Nathal did a good job of normalizing seeking help from the counseling center. He gave Maya the information she needed to be able to make her own choices. She felt understood and supported.
DR. NATHAL: Maybe I can check in over email in a couple weeks, see what steps you decided to take?
MAYA: Alright.
DR. NATHAL: You know, I’m glad you reached out. I want your time her to be good rewarding, and not too intense. Both the academic side, and the social side.
MAYA: Seriously, it means a lot. Talking with me about all this.
DR. NATHAL: Absolutely.
MAYA: Things have bee, it’s been hard recently. So, yeah. Thank you.
Dr. Nathal did a good job helping Maya and encouraging her to reach out to support. She knows he’s on her side and there are resources to help her. She has the information she needs to choose what support will be right for her.
Dr. Nathal did a great job asking open-ended questions. He said, “How have things been for you outside of class?”
This question gave Maya space to share how she’s doing outside of class. He showed her it was safe to share with him.
Dr. Nathal did a great job reflecting how Maya was feeling when he said, “So, you haven’t been sleeping as much as you’d like.”
He interpreted what Maya was saying. She could tell he understood what she told him.
Dr. Nathal did a good job bringing up something Maya said earlier in the conversation. He mentioned how important a sense of community is, showing that he really heard and understood her concerns.
Dr. Nathal showed empathy for what Maya’s going through when he said, “Feeling alone is hard sometimes, and yet you have still pushed yourself to find like-minded people.
He showed Maya he understands where she’s coming from. She felt it was safe to open up to him.
He showed Maya he supports her both in and out of the classroom when he said, “Breakups are definitely hard and can easily affect other parts of your life.”
He showed Maya he understands that difficulties in her personal life can affect her as a student. She knows he supports her both in and out of the classroom.
Dr. Nathal did a good job bringing up referral to Maya.
He said, “Would it be alright if we talked a little about some options that could help?”
By asking Maya’s permission to talk about referral options, he showed her he respects her and her agency.
Dr. Nathal talked to Maya about referral options, so she had enough information to make her own decisions.
He said, “Other students have told me it’s easier to fit in when they find a club, or a group, which fits their interests. What are your thoughts on that?”
He showed Maya he understood what she was going through and there are options to support her.