JACKIE: Let’s listen to how that conversation could have gone better from the start. Good Path:
MS. NAMOND: Hey, thanks for taking a little time to chat with me today.
LUCAS: Am I in trouble or something?
MS. NAMOND: No, I just thought I’d like to talk with you. We don’t get to talk much during class, and I have a few things I’d like to ask you about, to get your opinion.
LUCAS: Oh. Okay… I didn’t want to go to recess anyway.
MS. NAMOND: We missed you last week when you were out.
LUCAS: (no response)
MS. NAMOND: The note from your mom said you were sick. What happened?
LUCAS: Sometimes I feel tired and my stomach doesn't feel good. It's better if I stay home, you know? I don't have to ride the bus...it's just easier.
MS. NAMOND: I noticed you seemed a little frustrated in class today. You had your head down for most of the language arts lesson, and you were sighing and shaking your head.
LUCAS: Yeah. MS. NAMOND: What’s going on?
LUCAS: Nate was being really loud. I don’t like it when he gets like that. It makes my head hurt.
MS. NAMOND: Sometimes when it’s loud in class it makes your head hurt.
LUCAS: Like, sometimes, if I haven’t gotten much sleep and I’m really tired, then sometimes I get a headache. I just want everyone to calm down, relax, not be so loud.
JACKIE'S FEEDBACK: Good job reflecting what you think this student is saying. Notice how that encouraged him to keep talking. MS. NAMOND: You get the headaches because you’re tired.
LUCAS: Yeah… My mom and dad were up talking. Again. I tell them “C’mon, don’t you see I’m trying to sleep here?” But they just tell me to relax and count sheep or something. Why do people always say that?
MS. NAMOND: Say what?
LUCAS: About counting sheep? It never works.
JACKIE'S FEEDBACK: Ms. Namond did a good job reflecting what she thought the student was saying (“You get headaches because you’re tired”). Notice that this advanced the conversation.
MS. NAMOND: How often do you have trouble sleeping?
LUCAS: (big sigh) A lot.
MS. NAMOND: Yeah? LUCAS: Yeah. Now that we live at Grandma’s. Why are grown ups always so loud?
MS. NAMOND: (laughs) I don’t know.
LUCAS: And they’re always talking about stuff I don’t want to hear, you know?
LUCAS THOUGHT: (sad) I don’t think we’re ever going to get back into our old house. Everything is going to be awful forever.
MS. NAMOND: What kind of stuff are your parents talking about?
LUCAS: Just about… insurance and stuff.
MS. NAMOND: Insurance?
LUCAS: Yeah, like the fire, and money… and fixing the house… I don’t know why they have to talk about it, it’s not making the house get fixed any faster.
JACKIE'S FEEDBACK: Now Lucas is really opening up, and we may be close to understanding his behavior.
MS. NAMOND: You and I never really talked about the fire. I know that’s a very tough thing for you and your family to go through.
LUCAS: Yeah. A really tough thing.
LUCAS THOUGHT: I guess it is a big deal. Most people probably never have a fire in their house.
MS. NAMOND: Would it be okay if we talked a little about the fire?
LUCAS: (no response)
MS. NAMOND: Lucas, I understand you don’t want to talk about the fire right now. Do you mind if we talk a little about other things, like how you’re doing right now?
LUCAS: Yeah, we could do that.
JACKIE'S FEEDBACK: Ms. Namond is doing a good job. When broaching a potentially sensitive topic, you can make the other person feel more comfortable and in control if you ask permission first. She and Lucas haven’t talked very much yet, and he still doesn’t feel entirely comfortable opening up to her. She can try to move the conversation forward and connect him to support, but he might be more receptive if you spend more time beforehand continuing to discuss his classroom experience.
MS. NAMOND: Sounds really tough, having to move to a new place when you don’t want to… and a space that’s not yours and not set up the way you want, a place that doesn’t have all your things.
LUCAS: I know! I used to have my own room, and my bed was really comfy, and I had a Playstation. Now all our stuff is in storage, and we live so far away and now my friends don’t come over. Everything is so messed up!
MS. NAMOND: This is such a tough thing to go through. I really appreciate you trusting me enough to tell me how you’re feeling.
LUCAS: Well you’ve been my teacher for a while.
MS. NAMOND: You have so much going on and, in spite of all that, here you are at school, trying to study and learn and do well. I really admire that.
LUCAS: (nods) Coming to school is like my job, right? I have to do it.
MS. NAMOND: I guess so. But I know you study for our tests, and you’re so good about turning in your homework. Those things matter.
MS. NAMOND: Lucas, I just wish I had a magic wand and I would wave it and none of this would have happened to you.
LUCAS: I know, me too.
LUCAS THOUGHT: You’re the nicest teacher I’ve ever had. If I had a magic wand, I would make this recess go on forever.
MS. NAMOND: Who do you have to talk to about all this?
LUCAS: You?
MS. NAMOND: I’m really glad you feel like you can talk to me, and I’m happy to talk when we can. Do you have anyone else you can talk to?
LUCAS: Not really.
MS. NAMOND: What’s it like when you talk to your family about how tough this is for you?
LUCAS: I dunno. They’re busy. And really upset. Maybe more upset than I am.
MS. NAMOND: Yeah, I’m sure this is stressful for everybody.
LUCAS: (big sigh) Yeah.
MS. NAMOND: Would you like to maybe make this a weekly thing? We could eat lunch together or sit together during recess?
LUCAS: Could we have snacks?
MS. NAMOND: (laughs; then faux seriously) I think we can do that.
LUCAS: Popcorn? MS. NAMOND: It’s a deal!
LUCAS THOUGHT: I think I’ll make a new drawing - Ms. Namond and me, eating popcorn and playing video games. I think she’ll like that. MS.
NAMOND: You know Ms. Jones, the guidance counselor?
LUCAS: Yeah.
MS. NAMOND: She’s a really good person to talk to sometimes. She’s a great listener. What would you think if we set up a special time for you and Ms. Jones to hang out?
LUCAS: Sure.
MS. NAMOND: Okay, I’ll let you know if I can set something like that up.
MS. NAMOND: Well, thanks for talking with me. I really enjoyed it, Lucas.
LUCAS: You’re welcome.
MS. NAMOND: Recess is almost over. You want to keep drawing until then?
LUCAS: Yep. I’m almost finished.
MS. NAMOND: Good.
JACKIE: Let’s hear what Lucas thought of this conversation.
LUCAS: Ms. Namond likes me a lot. I mean, she likes all of her students, but I think I might be one of her favorites. She likes to talk and listen. And… she’s good at it! When we talked that first time, she asked me a bunch of questions. But I don’t mind. I could tell she really, really wanted to understand. Sometimes it was like she could see inside my brain, like she knew exactly what I was feeling. It was pretty cool.
And she said she thought it was great that I’m studying and turning in homework and everything, even though it’s hard for me to be at home right now. She said it matters that I care about school. I think so too.
Me and Ms. Namond have been meeting every week. Sometime’s there’s popcorn! We talk about all kinds of different things… like how things are going with my house, how I feel about the kids at school… I told her more about the fire. I’m also talking with Ms. Jones about the same kinds of things. It’s getting easier to think about that stuff now.
And my mom and dad have been up to the school. I guess they like talking with Ms. Namond and Ms. Jones, too. My mom said she didn’t realize how sleepy I’d been at school, and now she and my dad talk somewhere else if they have to.
So things are better. I think I’m really lucky that I’m in Ms. Namond’s class this year.