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Talk with Amy - Intro

JACKIE: It can be very hard for adolescents to come to terms with a death. When they're feeling powerful emotions--some of them totally new, or even conflicting--it can be an overwhelming, disorienting experience. How do we help our students express what they’re going through and connect them to a caring adult?

In this scenario, you play as Ms. Park, an Algebra I teacher at Mid-Valley High School. A week and a half ago, one of your students, Eric, died by suicide. Your students responded in different ways, like crying in class, needing to go home, or venting on social media. With some guidance from the postvention team, you started to talk with your students.

Most of your kids are doing better, but a few… might still be having a hard time. You’ve noticed one of your students, Amy, isn't quite herself. She’s usually friendly and sociable, but lately, she hasn't been talking to her friends or participating in class. Today, she moved her desk to the corner of the classroom and put her head down. And this was the fourth day in a row she missed turning in an assignment. You asked Amy to stay after class to talk.

Your goals are: first, check up on Amy and find out why she seems distant. Then, acknowledge and normalize what she’s been going through. Finally, if you identify any warning signs of distress, connect her to support, like the school counselor or peer support group.

Talk with Amy - Target Example

MS. PARK: Thanks for hanging back a minute, Amy.

AMY: Um… Sure. What… like, what’s this about?

MS. PARK: Well, it’s been a difficult couple of weeks. I just wanted to check in and see how you're holding up.

AMY: You know... life goes on, right?

COACH: Two weeks ago, one of Amy's classmates, Eric, died by suicide. Since then, she's been withdrawn in class and forgetting to turn in assignments. Fortunately, Amy has agreed to talk after class. Take this opportunity to check in and ask how the suicide is affecting her. MS. PARK: Well, I noticed today... you moved your desk away from the rest of the class.

AMY: I... Did I? Huh...(beat, considering) I guess I just wanted some space.

MS. PARK: Sure. I also noticed you didn't participate in your group work on Monday.

AMY: I'm just... not thinking about school stuff right now, Ms. Park. I'll do better. I'm sorry.

COACH: Good job! You made a factual, non-judgmental observation about Amy's behavior. As a result, she opened up a little. MS. PARK: You're not in trouble, Amy. You haven't done anything wrong.

AMY: Um... okay. (beat, reflecting on what Ms. Park just said) You mean... like, in class, right?

MS. PARK: Yeah.

AMY: Right... okay. (Pause) It's tough to know what that, like, means, y'know? "Doing something wrong."

MS. PARK: What do you mean?

AMY: Like the thing with Eric. I've just been thinking, like, “Did I do something to cause this?” Like, could I... totally on accident... could I have done something to cause... I don't think I did, but I guess I didn't do anything that... y'know, helped either. MS. PARK: So... you're wondering if you could have done more.

AMY: I don’t… I don’t know. Maybe. We saw him all the time and we missed- (beat, deciding to power through) It feels like we missed... something. MS. PARK: How well did you know Eric?

AMY: I mean... we were friends. Not, like, best friends or anything... but I've known him since the 2nd grade. MS. PARK: That's a long time to know someone.

AMY: Yeah... when he first moved to town, I remember, he was in my class an'... he sat next to me for awhile. We played on the same soccer team that year too. But, since... I mean, I can't remember the last time we spoke.

MS. PARK: (nods supportively)

AMY: No. I do. It was after Halloween. We were passing each other in the hall and he tossed me a piece of candy. "Head's up." That's the last time we spoke. Heads up... (lowers her head)

AMY THOUGHT: What kind of candy was it? Why can't I remember!? MS. PARK: What else do you remember about him?

AMY: I mean... I wish there was more to say. I know he had, like... a group he hung out with and stuff. But we... just kinda shared the same space, y'know?

MS. PARK: So you were telling me about when Mr. Coleman broke the news about Eric… How do you feel about how the school responded?

AMY: (rolls her eyes) MS. PARK: You didn't care for it.

AMY: (Reflecting before she speaks) It was okay. I just... I wanted to know what happened. What REALLY happened. I mean, Mr. Coleman getting up and saying, like "Eric died last night... It appears to have been a suicide" was... like, I get it. But I needed... (searches for it, settles on) more than that.

MS. PARK: I'm sure you had a lot of feelings. I know I did.

AMY: (gets quiet) Yeah. And people were already talking, y'know? (beat, thinking) They're still- (beat, changes course) Like... like, I hear someone found a note that he left. But... like, not at home. It was here. In his... like, in his locker? Tasha says hardly anyone leaves a note. That's what her dad told her or something. But I... I'm just curious, y'know? I've got no idea what's true.

COACH: Reflecting the emotion you sensed from Amy encouraged her to share more about how she's feeling. MS. PARK: So, you're hearing a lot of conflicting information.

AMY: Y-yeah... Like, I don't know what to believe. MS. PARK: What have you been hearing?

AMY: People started posting about it before I even got to school... but people are saying that it was his mom who...like, found him. He hung himself with an extension cord. I just... want to, like, understand.

COACH: Good. You asked Amy to share what she's heard, which gives you a chance to help her sort fact from speculation. MS. PARK: Try not to pay attention to what other people are saying.

AMY: I... (beat, continuing to speak through) like, I know what you mean. But the school told us, like, nothing. I need to know what happened. MS. PARK: Well... suicide's a really complicated issue. I'm not an expert or anything... but from what I've experienced, it usually isn't caused by one thing. It can be a bunch of things.

AMY: (beat) Heather told me that Eric's mom said he'd been diagnosed with depression.

MS. PARK: Now, most people with mental health issues don't take their own lives, but... yeah, it's complicated.

AMY: He must, like... really have been hurting. MS. PARK: What else do you know about what happened?

AMY: I... (pause, shakes her head) That's it. Just a couple of facts... and, like, a million questions. MS. PARK: You mentioned how some other people reacted… How are your classmates doing?

AMY: They're like... (looks down, sighs) I don't even know.

AMY THOUGHT: It's just so... (frustrated sigh) MS. PARK: You sound frustrated.

AMY: I... guess so. (beat, continuing to power through) And it's not just Chrissy McKinnon. I mean, it IS, but even, like... Tasha. She was in tears every day last week. But, today, all she wanted to talk about was this "hilarious" video Jarvis texted her last night. It's like, is everyone just pretending to be sad, like it's an act that they can just... turn on and off.

COACH: Reflecting the emotion you heard from Amy encouraged her to share more about how she's feeling. MS. PARK: How have you been feeling?

AMY: I've... y'know, it's been... a lot. And I look around at how everyone at school is acting... and am like, "Who are you people?" MS. PARK: You feel like your reactions are... different from those of your classmates.

AMY: I... (pause, then in a small voice) Yeah. When it's light out, I can't stay awake. At night, I can't sleep. I'm... like, all knotted up. My head keeps... like, something I heard someone say that day... or a text I read... or it could be just NOTHING. And that just circles in my head over and over. (beat, realizing) And I don't know how to make it stop.

COACH: Reflecting what you thought Amy meant showed you were listening without judgment. It encouraged Amy to share more about how she's been feeling. MS. PARK: What makes how you're feeling(...) different from your classmates?

AMY: Not different, just... like, I know what I'm feeling is real.

MS. PARK: How do you know that?

AMY: Because... (beat, wondering if she should continue) I've felt like this before (beat). When my parents split up... I remember feeling... It's the same. Just all... knotted-up, y'know? Like nothing anyone says makes any sense. MS. PARK: Who else have you talked to about how you're feeling?

AMY: I mean... I talk to my friends. See who's having... y'know, those kinda feelings. I talk to Tasha. I mean, we text, mostly. Until 1... 2 in the morning. Until she falls asleep.

MS. PARK: What's Tasha say when you talk to her?

AMY: She, like... usually makes jokes and stuff. Trying to take my mind off it.

MS. PARK: Does it work?

AMY: Uh... no. And I'm not gonna be all serious when she's joking around so, I'm like, just sitting there with... y'know, myself. Like, wondering if anyone else is having those kind of thoughts. MS. PARK: What kind of thoughts?

AMY: Like... the ones that... (beat, hesitating before she says) like, Eric was having. MS. PARK: Is anyone else having those thoughts?

AMY: I mean... no one comes right out and says it. Or if they do, people say they're just trying to get attention and that- (pause) It's all just a lot to think about. MS. PARK: Have you had any thoughts of hurting yourself?

AMY: (Long pause, really considering this) N-not for real or anything. They're just, like, thoughts, y'know? I don't want to do anything... (tip-toes) like what Eric did. But I keep thinking about it. MS. PARK: What kind of things have you been thinking about?

AMY: Just... (pause) What it must have been like. Y'know? For Eric.

MS. PARK: (nods, supportively)

AMY: Did it hurt? Was he scared? (I know) I'd be scared. (beat, mustering courage) And I wonder... did it work?

MS. PARK: What do you mean?

AMY: Whatever pain he was in... is that gone now? (getting agitated) And what happens if I'm ever in that kind of pain? MS. PARK: In the wake of a suicide, it's normal to have questions that may never get answered.

AMY: So, like... I'm just gonna have to live with not knowing?

MS. PARK: (nods, reassuringly)

AMY: I don't... um, I don't know if I'm ready to do that. (pause, in a quiet voice) But I'll... y'know, try. MS. PARK: You're worried about whether what happened to Eric could happen to you.

AMY: (voice strained, holding back tears) After my parents... y'know, split, my mom... she'd go on about how my dad was, like... "depressed" and how their marriage... sucked because he wasn't capable of stuff... like, being happy and stuff. And how his mom was the same way. Depressed.

MS. PARK: (leans forward, encouraging...)

AMY: And, like, I read that it's true. That stuff can be passed down. So, everyone's, like, relieved that Eric's parents are talking about how he struggled with depression. That they have their answer. But, like... for me? (shrugs) MS. PARK: (supportively) Go on.

AMY: I'm like... that could be me. If I have... y'know, what my dad does, that means it could be me.

COACH: Amy just shared information about her fears of having suicidal thoughts in the future. Even though she is not thinking of killing herself, it is highly recommended to make a referral to a counselor or peer group. MS. PARK: You know, it's pretty normal to talk to someone after a tragedy like this happens.

AMY: I... I know. (beat, wondering how to share this information) It's just hard to... um, actually do it. My mom isn't, like- we don't talk about feelings like that.

MS. PARK: Would you be willing to try?

AMY: (head down, thinks... then looks up at Ms. Park and nods) MS. PARK: Would you feel more comfortable if I went with you to see Mr. Ruiz? AMY: (pause, then smiles) You'd do that?

MS. PARK: Of course. Would you... Would you like me to do that?

AMY: (thinks, then nods) I would. Thanks, Ms. Park. COACH: Amy goes with you to see Mr. Ruiz after class. They meet repeatedly for two weeks for counseling sessions. While Amy is still sad about the suicide, she's opened up to her friends again and her engagement in class has greatly improved.

Talk with Amy - Pitfall Example

MS. PARK: Thanks for hanging back a minute, Amy.

AMY: Um… Sure. What… like, what’s this about?

MS. PARK: Well, it’s been a difficult couple of weeks. I just wanted to check in and see how you're holding up.

AMY: You know... life goes on, right?

COACH: Two weeks ago, one of Amy's classmates, Eric, died by suicide. Since then, she's been withdrawn in class and forgetting to turn in assignments. Fortunately, Amy has agreed to talk after class. Take this opportunity to check in and ask how the suicide is affecting her.

MS. PARK: If you're struggling with things, you should talk to me about it.

AMY: I don't, like... (beat, confused) I said I was okay. Did I... did I do something?

AMY THOUGHT: Just tell me what I did, like... wrong, so I can apologize and get outta here.

COACH: Your statement assumed something was wrong with Amy. That made her feel judged. If there's something you're concerned about, it's better to make a specific, factual observation about her behavior.

MS. PARK: I'm worried that you're not turning in your assignments.

AMY: You… um, you told us that if we couldn't, like, concentrate and stuff that it was okay. Sorry, I... I guess I just need a little longer right now.

COACH: You discussed Amy's academic performance before asking how she was doing, making Amy feel like she was in trouble. Saying you were "worried" also carried a judgment. If there's something you're concerned about, it's better to make a specific, factual observation about her behavior.

MS. PARK: You know, with all that's going on right now... focusing on your school work could be a good distraction.

AMY: I... (beat, not convinced) I'm pretty distracted already.

COACH: Amy might feel like you're more interested in pushing your own agenda than listening to her. A better way to build trust is to show you're listening: ask open-ended questions and express empathy.

MS. PARK: It's time to buckle down (focus). That means turning in assignments on time… not zoning out in class. We have to start getting back to normal.

AMY: (laughs under her breath)

MS. PARK: What?

AMY: "Normal." (Beat, thinking about the word) I don't... like, even know what that means.

COACH: A "tough love" approach only served to dismiss Amy's feelings and emotions. Instead, build trust by supporting her and encouraging her to open up.

MS. PARK: You're doing the best you can.

AMY: Um... (tint of sarcasm) really? (drops sarcasm) I don't know. Was I doing my best when Eric was, y'know... going through whatever he was going through? I doubt it. I mean, I saw him every day and... what did I ever do?

MS. PARK: Are you thinking about hurting yourself?

AMY: (taken aback) What makes you think that?

MS. PARK: I just wanted to be sure that you weren't thinking about it.

AMY: (less angry, more annoyed) Well, I'm not.

AMY THOUGHT: Wow. You really cut to the chase, huh?

MS. PARK: How well did you know Eric?

AMY: I mean... we were friends. Not, like, best friends or anything... but I've known him since the 2nd grade.

MS. PARK: Then, why is this making you so sad?

AMY: I... (starts to cry, then reins it in) I dunno.

AMY THOUGHT: Maybe it shouldn't. But it does.

COACH: Your question implied that Amy has no reason to have these emotions, making her feel judged. Instead, acknowledge Amy's feelings and assure her that grief can be expressed in many different ways.

MS. PARK: So you were telling me about when Mr. Coleman broke the news about Eric… How do you feel about how the school responded?

AMY: (rolls her eyes)

MS. PARK: Mr. Coleman should have told you more.

AMY: I don't... (frustrated) I mean, I don't know if he knew anything more than the rest of us.

COACH: Right now it doesn't help to assign blame. Instead, focus more on how Amy is feeling and help her process what happened.

MS. PARK: You mentioned how some other people reacted… How are your classmates doing?

AMY: They're like... (looks down, sighs) I don't even know.

AMY THOUGHT: It's just so... (frustrated sigh)

MS. PARK: Why are their reactions bothering you so much?

AMY: They're being weird... and they're just, like, bothering me, okay?

MS. PARK: Okay.

AMY: Sorry... I guess I'm not supposed to think they're weird.

AMY THOUGHT: I guess I'm not allowed to have opinions now…

COACH: Asking a "why" question can sound judgmental. Instead, use a reflection to acknowledge her frustrations about her classmate's reactions.

MS. PARK: Amy... how would you feel about talking to someone about how you're feeling?

AMY: (shocked) Um... what?

MS. PARK: I think you should... maybe talk to a counselor.

AMY: (takes a second to process, then-) Wait... I thought... You've barely asked me ANYTHING. Now you're saying I need a counselor?

MS. PARK: Based on everything you've told me, I really think you need to see the school counselor.

AMY: Mr. Ruiz...? You got the wrong idea, Ms. Park. I'm gonna go, okay? I'll try to pay more attention in class.

MS. PARK: Are you sure?

AMY: Yeah, I'm good. I'll see you in class.

COACH: Amy decides not to visit Mr. Ruiz's for counseling. After two weeks, Amy's mood and academic engagement does not improve. By the end of the semester, she is put on academic probation.