Module 3: Discussions
NATE: When you talk to a veteran about the military or about recent conflicts overseas…
there are a couple of things you should know. First, we’re experts about this. We lived it. Some of us may be comfortable having a conversation about it, but most of us feel a little… uncomfortable… when we hear someone who hasn’t been through it telling us what it’s like. Second, it’s very personal to us. We sacrificed in the service; and, while a derogatory statement about the military may seem harmless, it can actually be pretty upsetting to someone who spent a year or more of their lives deployed.
ALICIA: Which brings us to our second story… Imagine the scene is during a business class. The teacher is leading a class discussion on a case study the students read about a defense contracting company. At times, you'll hear Nate and I comment on the discussion. One student raises his hand and says…
STUDENT: I had kind of a strong reaction to this case study, to be honest. I mean, when you think about all the money that’s wasted on weapons and stuff for the military…
And they use that money to lobby Washington to spend even more money on defense. You know, it’s almost criminal.
Example of a Good Conversation
PROFESSOR: Sounds like you’re concerned that lobbyists in this industry may have too much influence over politicians’ decisions.
STUDENT: Uh… Yeah.
ALICIA: I think that was a good response.
NATE: Yeah. This student’s comments seemed pretty innocent.
But this is just the sort of discussion that can make a veteran start to feel isolated and self conscious.
ALICIA: But, by reframing the student’s comment into something a little more objective, you reduced the tension a veteran in your class might feel.
NATE: Let’s see what happens next…
PROFESSOR: What do the rest of you think about this, based on what we read in the case study?
PROFESSOR: Yes? Rachel.
RACHEL: Well, I kind of agree. And I’ve noticed there’s also this pressure, like this political pressure. Like, it’s a crime to even question military spending because, if you do, you’re not like “supporting the troops” or something.
PROFESSOR: Anyone else want to weigh in?
AUSTIN: Yeah I have something to say. I mean, is it some kind of newsflash to all of you that we’re fighting a war right now?
(Class is silent)
AUSTIN: Any of you realize that? (silence)
Okay, look… I was four years Marine Corp. Afghanistan. And there are people over there right now who I fought with who are going out every day without all the equipment they need. You cannot send people to fight your wars and then not give them the basic equipment they need to survive. If you do that, you’re just as bad as the people we’re over there trying to kill.
NATE: Hm.
ALICIA: I think this guy just got really frustrated.
NATE: Well, it’s hard listening to people you think just don’t get it, when they’re talking about something so personal to you.
Now let's see how the teacher decides to respond to this student. Keep in mind, his statements might seem tough—or even inappropriate—but it’s not easy for most veterans to open up like that about their experiences.
PROFESSOR: Thank you for sharing that with us. I think your comments are a good reminder that the policies we’re talking about are complex and, at the end of the day, have real effects on real people.
AUSTIN: Thank you. And, look, I mean no disrespect to anybody. It’s just…
You know, we don’t know the terrain over there or have the “hearts and minds” of the people. But the one thing we do have is our weapons technology. And that costs money—sad to say—but it also saves lives.
PROFESSOR: Right, and these are really complicated issues.
Example of a Weak Conversation
PROFESSOR: What about you, Austin?
You used to be in the service, didn’t you? Maybe you have some insight you can share with the class.
NATE: So, you’re right that a veteran might have an interesting point of view on this.
ALICIA: Yeah, but calling them out in class without their permission is…
NATE: It can be very uncomfortable.
If you want a veteran to share their opinion or talk about their experiences in class, make sure you okay it with them beforehand. Let's see how it plays out without calling Austin out.
PROFESSOR: I know what you mean. When I think about even the cuts just here at the university, it sometimes seems crazy that we could be spending so much fighting in other countries.
ALICIA: Okay. Well, there’s nothing wrong with having this point of view or even expressing it. But just know that this is an extremely personal topic to veterans. It just is.
NATE: If you do have any veterans in your class right now, they’re probably feeling a little uncomfortable.
PROFESSOR: And what do the rest of you think about this, based on what we read in the case study?
PROFESSOR: Yes? Rachel.
RACHEL: Well, I kind of agree. And I’ve noticed there’s also this pressure, like this political pressure. Like, it’s a crime to even question military spending because, if you do, you’re not like “supporting the troops” or something.
PROFESSOR: So you’re saying political pressure might also be a reason for the increase in defense spending. What about the actual cost of the recent conflicts overseas? Could that also be a reason? Austin?
AUSTIN: Well, you’re right. We’re spending more because we’re trying to fight smart. I was four years Marine Corp. Afghanistan. And we don’t know the terrain over there. We don’t have the “hearts and minds” of the people. The one thing we do have is our weapons. Our technology. And, yes, that costs money, but it also saves lives. I don’t know how you put a price on that... on soldiers’ survival.
PROFESSOR: Thanks for sharing that with us. So you said you were in Afghanistan for four years.
AUSTIN: Yes, sir.
PROFESSOR: Just wondering, did you get to use any of these weapons we read about in the case study?
AUSTIN: Um, I’m not really sure.
ALICIA: So I know he just opened up a bit in class, but that doesn’t mean he’s comfortable sharing specific information about his service.
NATE: It’s good to let veterans define how much information they want to share about their experiences, instead of asking specific questions that might seem personal.
Post-Conversation
ALICIA: Student veterans can add a unique and valuable perspective to class discussions. Here are some tips for getting them involved in a positive way.
NATE: First, just be aware that there could be veterans or service members in class.
ALICIA: And the majority of college students have a friend or family member who’s served in Iraq or Afghanistan. So comments about the military can be personal to a lot of people, not just veterans.
NATE: Two. If you want us to share our experiences, that’s great! Just talk with us first to make sure we’re comfortable with that.
ALICIA: It’s also fine to ask something like, “Are there any veterans here who’d like to talk about their experiences?”
NATE: Just don’t call on someone out of the blue or use them as an example without their permission.
ALICIA: Number three. Ask open-ended questions, like, “What did you do in the military?” or “How’s it been since coming home?” That way we can define how much or how little we want to say.
NATE: Avoid specific questions, which might force a veteran to talk about something they’re not comfortable with.
ALICIA: And it’s not okay to ask if we’ve lost friends or killed anyone.
Questions like that are very personal and make us really uncomfortable.
NATE: Four. If a conversation gets heated, help your students define what they want to say. When necessary, reframe their comments in a more objective tone.
ALICIA: And, finally, veterans may have had life experiences that are not only different from their classmates’ but also very different from yours. So… try to keep an open mind about what they’ve learned about the world.